Minutes of the Phone-Meeting, September 26, 18h00 (CET)
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The meeting start with the presentation of the participants. KEK/Babar
absence is noted and Cristi apologises for choosing a non favourable
time for Japan. He will mention the points raised by email by
Prof. Sasaki (KEK).

The experiments presented shortly the data analysis models and also
some considerations concerning long term data persistency. The
experiments (CDF, D0, H1, ZEUS, Babar) have similar time scales (+/- 1
year), the horizon for continuing data analysis after the end of the
data taking is about 5 years.

The medium term strategy is to conserve the present analysis model.
Some experiments plan to enhance the abstraction (ZEUS). Some
considerations were made about the strategies to conserve data.

There here are two complementary aspects of this subject (Amber):
first is the prolongation of the present analysis power within the
collaboration, second is the perenity and accessibility of the data at
longer term. We should adress both of them in our discussion. The
longer term perspective is not yet systematically adressed by the
experiments, although Gregory presented some concrete working fronts
considered within Babar computing. Richard Mount underlined the
importance of such project in order to maintain the interest for HEP
computing in the host laboratories of closed experiments.


-The objectives of the workshop were adopted. The intial list was
considered a good starting point:


    - Review and document the physics objectives of the data
    persistency in HEP

    - Exchange information concerning the analysis model: abstraction,
    software, documentation etc. and identify coherence points

    - Address the harware and software persistency status

    - Get some external (non-HEP, non-research etc.) input

    - Converge to a common set of specifications in a document that
    will constitute the basis for future collaborations. The document
    can also serve as a basis for specific request to our funding
    agencies.

    - Review possible fundings programs (national/european/international)

It was clarified that we should agree on common standards, but not try
to evolve the analysis models towards an unique structure or to
attempt common analyses etc.

The relationship with LHC computing was discussed: it is agreed that
representatives will be invited, since the LHC computing will be the
dominant HEP computing project in the next two decades. LEP
representatives should be also be invited.

A review of "long user models" should be made (reasons for
re-analysis, external usage of the data for training//outreach
etc). We should adress the point of view of re-use of the data with
little(no) insider knowledge. We should also consider the aspects of
the intellectual property and open access to experimental data.


The proposal to organise the workshop is the following. We foresee two
steps:

     - A first workshop to asses the principles and create the
     momentum for concrete studies. The first workshop should create
     some directions of investigations, to be followed in smaller
     working groups.

     - A second workshop will be organised in order to review this
     work and to converge on a common document as a basis for further
     reference and future developments and collaborations.

The proposal is to organise the first workshop in DESY. The date will
be agreed by e-mail (vote). It is agreed that the principle is that we
need to meet and discuss _in person_ as much as possible, so this
should be taken into account in the vote. (video will be provided
though). SLAC is candidate for the second workshop.

It is agreed that a reasonable visibility should be given to this
initiative, as sson as the organisation of the first workshop is
mature enough.

Francois Le Diberder makes the point about ICFA seminar, to be held at
SLAC October 28-31. The objective is to make this workshop known to
ICFA. There is a good chance to have most of the organisational
matters settled before this date, which may justify a short
presentation in one of the discussion sessions of the ICFA seminar.